Does my 1971 Ampeg V2 sound okay ?

[borisiwanow]

Hi everyone ! 

I've had this Ampeg V2 head for several months and I don't really know what to think about it...

Actually it is my first vintage amp. I purchased it because I'm the biggest Joe Perry worshipper, and I read a lot of articles explaining that He was one of those guitarists who secretly used Ampegs instead of the famous Marshalls in the studio. (and in his case the V2). And every review I read about this amp talked about how versatile and clean this amp was, people even called it : the "Marshall killer".

So I was lucky enough to find one for sale in Europe (if they are rare in the US imagine how mystic they are in Europe) ! And even better, for a great price ! My hype grew faster and faster as I was reading on forums about the marvelous midrange controls, the definition, the clarity of this amp, how it had some of the best cleans, best reverb etc. And I had to hear it to believe it. Therefore, I started searching for sound examples and demos on internet, but it seems that good quality videos of this amp are forbidden. And if the videos are good, the guys demonstrating are always putting a massive distortion in front of the amp and making it sound like a bees nest shot with a bazooka. The distortion was always over the top and it was not really what I was looking to achieve sonically with this amp.

I began to doubt that this amp could really touch a Marshall, but when listening to the Stones' Get Yer Ya-Ya's out or Aerosmith's Toys in the Attic, it was clear that this amp sounded beautiful. SO I bought this mf.

The guy who sold it to me told me that it had been serviced, but I don't know if We have the same definition of "serviced". The reverb didn't work, the power cable didn't fit into modern sockets, and the amp made cracking noises. Believe me ... I was afraid to turn this thing on! And I was right : I brought the amp to a renowned repairshop and the guy electrocuted himself with the head ! Then He repaired sockets, changed caps, repaired the reverb. 

BUT even after paying 200 euros more, the work wasn't finished yet ! The amp was still clipping really soon. The repairman told me that one valve was maybe faulty, the mighty 6k11 !
The issue as you may know it, is that these tubes are only located in the US. It's impossible to find them over here.

The issue that my amp has, is that as soon as you go over 9:00 on the volume, the amp is already in crunch territory. And this is a little disappointing. Cause under, it's simply too clean, there's no headroom and no dynamics. And as soon as you approach 10:00 on the volume, the amp is in Djent territory, and even with bass on zero, the amp is way too bassy, there's in no definition, no clarity. There is no harmonics, it just sounds muddy and way too dirty. It simply sounds bad to my ears! If this was the only problem, it would be acceptable, but the amp also produce an irritating scratchy sound in the mids.

So my question is : is this normal ? Is this how this amp behave normally ? Is the 6k11 really faulty after all ? Cause I know that some people who play stoner are really seeking for this big sound from this amp. So I wondered if I really needed to purchase new tubes from Fliptops ? I would be disappointed to import these new tubes only to discover that they won't change anything.

I did a really short tone test video here https://youtu.be/CErtnqAj9kM to demonstrate the tone of the amp with these settings : Vol : 9:30 - Treble : 02:00 - Middle : 03:15 - Bass : 0. The speakers aren't the greatest (Celestion 70/80). But it doesn't sound that much different with an IR loaded with better speakers.

I hope that somebody will be able to help me and to offer me advice about what I should do with these tubes ! 
Thanks guys !

[Hangman]

hey Boris,

These amps do hit the power stage really hard. if you use the preamp out jack on the back of the amp, you can plug the preamp into a mixer to see what the preamp is doing. my guess is that it is clean. you can even record some signal coming out of that and post it here. might be helpful to determine if things are wonky.
I have seen resistors go way off value in the mid circuit, which has caused some unpleasant sounding distortion/muddiness. I wouldn't assume a 6k11 is bad.

now as to your feelings about the treble, mids.
This amp is not a fender. so when you put the treble, mid and bass at 12 o'clock, that should be a flat frequency response. from 20hz to 20khz. This is not always desirable for guitar and for someone used to fenders/marshalls this may feel like very unfamiliar territory, this is because flat frequency response on a fender/marshall isn't really possible.
so you need experiment the EQ to shape your tone. a few tips:

1. As I mentioned before the controls are flat at 12o'clock, so start with treble/mid bass all there, and think about what frequencies you want to remove, and try subtractive eq first. this is especially true with the mid eq (see #2)
2.The mid has a switch that selects the frequency band. 300hz, 1k or 3k. this mid control has options. I have never found boosting 1k to be pleasant but I did know people that liked this. you mentioned your kids were at 3.15... this is a considerable boost. and if your switch was set to 1k, I bet it was unpleasant.
3. turn the ultra-high off. the ultra high uses 120pf ceramic caps. I don't like the cap value or type, I switch it to 250pf 500V silver mica. These sound much less harsh and will tame the ultra-high considerably
4. please check out my EQ mod http://www.vintageampeg.com/ampeg-tone-s...n/#more-22 This can help a lot with the harsh sounding treble, and the fluffy lows. replace with tubular film capacitors and you will be much happier.

also, what kind of guitar are you using?

[borisiwanow]

hey Boris,

These amps do hit the power stage really hard.  if you use the preamp out jack on the back of the amp,  you can plug the preamp into a mixer to see what the preamp is doing.  my guess is that it is clean. you can even record some signal coming out of that and post it here. might be helpful to determine if things are wonky.
I have seen resistors go way off value in the mid circuit,  which has caused some unpleasant sounding distortion/muddiness.   I wouldn't assume a 6k11 is bad.  

now as to your feelings about the treble, mids.  
This amp is not a fender.  so when you put the treble, mid and bass at 12 o'clock,  that should be a flat frequency response. from 20hz to 20khz.  This is not always desirable for guitar and for someone used to fenders/marshalls this may feel like very unfamiliar territory,  this is because flat frequency response on a fender/marshall isn't  really possible.  
so you need experiment the EQ to shape your tone.  a few tips:

1. As I mentioned before the controls are flat at 12o'clock,  so start with treble/mid bass all there,  and think about what frequencies you want to remove,  and try subtractive eq first.  this is especially true with the mid eq (see #2)
2.The mid has a switch that selects the frequency band.  300hz, 1k or 3k.  this mid control has options.  I have never found boosting 1k to be pleasant but I did know people that liked this. you mentioned your kids were at 3.15... this is a considerable boost. and if your switch was set to 1k,  I bet it was unpleasant.
3. turn the ultra-high off.  the ultra high uses 120pf ceramic caps. I don't like the cap value or type, I switch it to 250pf 500V silver mica.  These sound much less harsh and will tame the ultra-high considerably
4. please check out my EQ mod http://www.vintageampeg.com/ampeg-tone-s...n/#more-22  This can help a lot with the harsh sounding treble, and the fluffy lows.  replace with tubular film capacitors and you will be much happier.

also, what kind of guitar are you using?

Wow ! Thanks for this detailed answer Hangman ! You shared a lot of great informations. 

I think the main and most important problem I have with the amp, as you pointed out, is my lack of knowledge and experience with it ! Not really that it's sounding bad. (when you listen to "Stay with Me", Ron Wood tone is pretty harsh). The fact is that I've always played with "conventional" amps so this kind of controls and tone feel really out of this world for the Marshall "normie" I am haha. That's also why I boosted the mids pretty hard. I'm used to the Marshall EQ where you put the bass at 0, mids at 9, and treble on 6-7. 

But that's what I love with this amp, it's different and unique. And I'm trying to distance myself from the modern amps sound. Nowadays all guitarists (including me) all look after the same tone from every amps. In the 70's everybody sounded so different ... because utlimately, the gear was really different, and there were 1billion ways to shape your tone ! So I have to learn more about this amp and accept that it will not behave like a Friedman BE100.

Anyways, I'll try to record the preamp out when I'm back at home to figure out if the preamp is doing something weird. That is clever. And in the future I'll also try my hand on the tone stack mod.

For your information also I was playing on a Greco Les Paul custom copy, with creme brulee pickups loaded in it (A2 magnet PAF style).

One other little thing I wanted to ask and that seems weird is how the treble control behaves. If I go from 6ish to 7ish, the sound instantly become more distorted, it sort of jumps. I wondered if this was typical with this V2 too ?

Many thanks for your help and I'll comeback with sound demos from the preamp out as soon as possible !

[Hangman]

Ampegs are definitely different and often misunderstood. If you approach it differently than you do for a fender or Marshall then you’ll get better results.
I’ve owned v4s and VT22s, but not V2s. I never noticed a big jump in distortion for the treble control, but I was never really driving the amps super hard. I don’t notice that on my other ampegs with the same eq circuit either.

[borisiwanow]

Ampegs are definitely different and often misunderstood.  If you approach it differently than you do for a fender or Marshall then you’ll get better results.  
I’ve owned v4s and VT22s,  but not V2s.  I never noticed a big jump in distortion for the treble control,  but I was never really driving the amps super hard.  I don’t notice that on my other ampegs with the same eq circuit either.

Hey Hangman, as you advised me, I just recorded the preamp out of my Ampeg V2. 

You can have a listen here : https://youtu.be/cHi9mYHQLMU

In the first sound clip, you can hear the amp going into an IR. (equivalent to recording the cabinet). You can hear an annoying "fizzle" in the mids/treble, some kind of clipping. Even though that you can hear that the tone is clean behind. I don't really know what's happening or if it's a normal sound.
The second clip is the preamp directly going into my audio interface. And as you hear it, it is crystal clear. 

So I don't really understand what is happening in the mic'ed example. Is a part broken and producing this unpleasant sound ? Is the transformer bad ? Some caps maybe ?

I hope you'll be able to help me sort this out.
Thank you for your help again.

[Hangman]

Boris,

The clean signal coming from the preamp out is not alone surprising. This is how these amps are.  the breakup all comes from the power stage. 

Can you increase the height of the track you captured with the IR?  make it nice and big,  then lets do a horizontal zoom and lets see what the waveform looks like. 

if you have a tone generator (or you can download one for your smartphone)  then turn the V2 volume control half way up,  and increase the tone generator volume until it starts to distort.  Then push the tone generator volume up a little further and lets see what that looks like. 



-Steve